Greetings,

Je suis tombé sur ça en cherchant un truc et j'avoue que j'ai trouvé ça particulièrement intéressant (source de 2006), il y' a de bonnes choses à se rappeler ou à découvrir concernant les tenants et les aboutissants d'Hemo, je pense notamment à ceux qui se sont déjà demandé à partir de quel stade Hemo faisait une moyenne dmg/energy supérieure à celle de SS par exemple, ou ceux qui se posaient des questions quant au trink ZHM de ZG, calculer les taux de proc des enchants etc ; vous avez les calculs, des explications limpides, bref, all teh bullshit.

Enjoy.

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So you want to spec Hemorrhage, or you don't know enough about Hemorrhage to make an informed decision. Let's get started then.





Information About Hemorrhage


As quoted from WoWWiki: "This ability is available as a Rogue talent in the Subtlety tree. It is an instant strike that deals weapon damage as well as leaving a debuff that increases physical damage dealt to the target by up to 3 (5 and 7 for rank 2 and 3 respectively). It lasts 30 charges or 15 sec, and awards 1 combo point. It has no cooldown."

The +7 damage debuff from Hemorrhage has limited raid utility. It helps your raid's physical DPS do 7 more damage per hit, and 14 more damage per critical hit up to 30 times before the Hemorrhage debuff wears off. Depending on talents and damage modifiers, the damage increase from Hemorrhage can be increased by that amount. Examples include Opportunity's 20%, Lethality's 30% crit addition, etc. Other classes' modifiers count as well. The rule of thumb when trying to find out if an ability affects Hemorrhage added damage is that if Weapon Damage is affected by the ability, the added damage from Hemorrhage will also be affected by that ability. It is also wise to remember that the added damage is affected by armor.

All that being great, the Hemorrhage debuff doesn't stack on mobs. There is no way to go over 30 charges, or increase the duration, or stack the debuff to increase added damage to 14 or 21 or whatever. Having more than one Hemorrhage Rogue in your raid can be detrimental to overall DPS, and is generally ill-advised unless your raid is heavy on melee DPS.

Even so, the debuff generally isn't completely used every time it's put up, and as well your general Hemorrhage Rogue will put out less DPS than his fellow Combat Daggers and Combat Swords/Fists/Maces builds, although he may or may not be around (possibly exceeding) your Seal Fate and 21/8/22 builds for DPS, depending on his weapons, his Attack Power, his buffs, and of course the layout of his spec.

Hemorrhage's real use is in PvP. Given its placement in the Subtlety tree next to Preparation (in 1.12, although before 1.12 Prep is in the tier below Hemorrhage), and the other PvP-like talents the Subtlety tree gives you, you've already specced for somewhat PvP decency by the time you get to it.

Hemorrhage is 35 energy for 100% weapon damage, basically translating into an instant weapon swing with a debuff attached to it. With Initiative and perhaps Dirty Deeds/Improved Cheap Shot, a Hemorrhage Rogue can generally get 5 Combo Points up and Kidney Shot or Eviscerate his opponent within the first 5 seconds or so of the encounter.

This amount of control makes a Hemorrhage Rogue a deadly force in PvP. For PvE, Hemorrhage is lackluster, especially without appropriate gearing and certain spec choices. In PvP, a Hemorrhage Rogue excels at 1 vs. 1 and has enough control to finesse many 1 vs. 2 and some 1 vs. 3 matches, depending of course on skill more than anything. Of course that's not to say that any other build doesn't have the potential to bust out those 1 vs. N matches, however Hemorrhage allows a Rogue more control over his energy and faster Combo Point generation than any other build (Seal Fate offers similar Combo Point generation, but the energy management is hardly as stellar).

Sample PvP combo: Cheap Shot --> Hemo --> Hemo --> 4/5 CP Kidney Shot --> Hemo --> Gouge --> 2/3 CPs -->Restealth. Cheap Shot --> 4/5 CPs --> Hemo if necessary to obtain 5 CPs --> Eviscerate [Cold Blood if possible]

No cooldowns used (Other than Cold Blood if you did), and easily 4000-5000 damage if you did things right.

With all of that said.....Be wary of speccing Hemorrhage if there is another Rogue in your guild already boasting the build, especially if he has no idea how to play it (e.g. fast weapons, shoddy spec, uses daggers, whatever), as your raid will be further crippled by your choice.

If raiding is of no consequence to you, then by all means go for it, but just remember that Hemorrhage isn't about brute force, it's about using a variety of options to finesse your opponent into the ground, and should be treated as such. This means no heroic attempts at charging into the fray like a madman as some (many...) Combat Rogues have been known to do.





What is this Hemorrhage thing anyway?

Hemorrhage is a talent based ability in the subtlety tree. The tooltip is rather vague but Hemorrhage does weapon damage (unnormalised attack power, as in it calculates damage from the weapon speed). It is also affected by lethality (weapon damage * 2.3 on a crit).
It does the same damage as your white damage only it adds lethality. Not huge damage but it only costs 35 Energy, this means with good attack power and a slow weapon you do more damage per energy than Sinister Strike.


Summary


Hemorrhage is applied before critical damage and critical damage multipliers.

Reasons behind research

Well, I was wondering about this the other day about wether the +7 was just a static number added to your hits and crits.

You hit for 8
You crit for 16

Apply hemo and it's just

You hit for 15 (8+7)
You crit for 23 (16+7)

Well, it's not that simple...


The situation


So I used an exposed target so they had 0 armour, and kicked them because kick is fixed damage, not a damage range, meaning my results were infact exact and accurate rather than an average


The boring maths part: Kick


87 hit with Hemorrhage applied
174 crits with Hemorrhage applied.

This means that Hemorrhage does infact add +14 damage on a crit.


The boring maths part: Gouge


Someone suggested I use gouge aswell to make sure my results were accurate as it is also fixed damage, not a damage range. When I did this I found myself getting what appeared to be an impossible gouge crit, according to my prior maths

Gouge is 75 damage without armour reduction. It's affected by lethality.

75 * 2.3 = 172 (Gouge * Crit + Lethalty)

172 + 14 = 186 (Gouge Crit + Hemorrhage Crit)

186 should be the max gouge crit.

My Gouge crit was 188-189. (I got a few of each)

(75 + 7) * 2.3 = 188.6

This means the hemorrhage bonus is applied before lethality.


Some afterthoughts


This isn't a massive world changing find but it does means that hemorrhage is a bigger boost to raid DPS than I previously thought.

It would add more like 16 per SS/BS/Hemo crit and 14 per melee white crit rather than just 7

What I would like to know is...are there any other crit multipliers. Surely the hunters "Mortal Shots" would also take this into account and a warriors "Impale"? Dunno about any others. I'd like to find out.


Gift of Arthas


Gift of Arthas and Hemorrhage stack and function in the same way.

Gouge Crit with both if they stacked:

((75) + (7+8)) * 2.3
90 * 2.3
207

7 + 8 = 15

15 damage added to a normal hit.

30 damage added to a normal crit.

34.5 damage added to a Lethality crit.

Pretty decent damage upgrade IMO




Choosing Your Mainhand Weapon


So what weapons work well for Hemorrhage? Instant strikes always base their damage from your mainhand weapon in combination with your character's statistics. What this means is Hemorrhage is only good for weapons where the speed difference as opposed to the DPS difference balances out the Attack Power multiplier in the Hemorrhage calculation.


Hemorrhage: Weapon Damage + (Attack Power / 14) * Weapon Speed
Hemorrhage Critical: Hemorrhage Formula * (2 + Lethality Rank * 0.06)

Generally a good rule of thumb to follow is a speed of 2.5 or better, with 2.8 being the easiest slow speed to find on a weapon. Just remember that for every .1 faster swing speed, you lose a rather substantial amount of damage.




Illustration of Weapon Speed Differences

Misplaced Servo Arm
Base Minimum Damage: 128 ... Base Average Damage: 183 ... Base Maximum Damage: 238
Lethality Rank: 5
AP: 1000

Weapon Speed: 2.8
Average Hemorrhage: 383
Average Critical Hemorrhage: 881

Weapon Speed: 2.7
Average Hemorrhage: 376
Average Critical Hemorrhage: 865

In the above example, simply increasing the swing speed by .1 seconds makes a difference of 7 damage per normal hit, and 16 damage on a critical hit.

If we were to drop the speed from 2.8 to 2.4, a rather fast non-dagger swing speed, the damage difference jumps to 29 for an average hit and 67 for a critical hit. That loss of 29 damage would represent an 8% loss in instant attack damage just because you chose to use a faster weapon.

Also, here's why you don't use daggers with Hemorrhage. Ever.

Kingsfall
Base Minimum Damage: 105 ... Base Average Damage: 131.5 ... Base Maximum Damage: 158
Lethality Rank: 5
AP: 1000

Average Hemorrhage: 260
Average Critical Hemorrhage: 598


This represents a loss of over 120 damage on every normal hit, and an ungodly loss of damage for every critical hit. I say it again, NEVER USE DAGGERS WITH HEMORRHAGE.

Both of the above weapons come from Naxxramas, and in fact Kingsfall drops from the final boss there, being Kel'Thuzad. The fact remains that due to Hemorrhage's damage calculation being almost completely reliant on weapon speed, your damage takes a large hit when you choose to do something foolish like wielding a dagger or something silly like Eskhandar's Right Claw (1.5 speed fist weapon).




Damage Per Energy Equivalence

So you've got your weapon, but want to know what Attack Power you need for Hemorrhage to do more damage per Energy spent than a Rogue using Sinister Strike with 3/3 Aggression.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(AP/14) * [Weapon Speed] + [Weapon Damage] = (1.06) (35/40) ((AP/14) * 2.4 + [Weapon Damage] + 68)
(AP/14) * [Weapon Speed] + [Weapon Damage] = (0.9275) ((AP/14) * 2.4 + [Weapon Damage] + 68)
(AP/14) * [Weapon Speed] + [Weapon Damage] = 0.9275 * (AP/14) * 2.4 + 0.9275 * [Weapon Damage] + 0.9275 * 68
(AP/14) * [Weapon Speed] + [Weapon Damage] = AP/14 * 2.226 + 0.9275 * [Weapon Damage] + 63.07
(AP/14) * ( [Weapon Speed] - 2.226 ) + [Weapon Damage] * (1 - 0.9275) = 63.07
(AP/14) * ( [Weapon Speed] - 2.226 ) = 63.07 - (0.0725) * [Weapon Damage]
(AP/14) = [ 63.07 - (0.0725) * Weapon Damage ] / [ Weapon Speed - 2.226 ]
AP = 14 * [ 63.07 - (0.0725) * Weapon Damage ] / [ Weapon Speed - 2.226 ]
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AP = ( 882.98 - 1.015 * (Minimum Weapon Damage + Maximum Weapon Damage) / 2 ) / ( Weapon Speed - 2.226 )

Use this formula how you wish.




Lethality vs. Deadliness

So, you want to know when Deadliness will equal the damage Lethality gives to your Hemorrhage crit?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Weapon Damage + (AP / 14) * Weapon Speed) * 2.3 = (Weapon Damage + (AP / 14) * Weapon Speed * 1.1) * 2
Weapon Damage + (AP / 14) * Weapon Speed = (Weapon Damage + (AP / 14) * Weapon Speed * 1.1) * (2 / 2.3)
Weapon Damage + (AP / 14) * Weapon Speed = (2 / 2.3) * Weapon Damage + (2 / 2.3) * 1.1 * (AP / 14) * Weapon Speed
(AP / 14) * Weapon Speed = (1 - 2 / 2.3) * Weapon Damage + (2.2 / 2.3) * (AP / 14) * Weapon Speed
(AP / 14) = (1 - 2 / 2.3) * Weapon Damage / Weapon Speed + (2.2 / 2.3) * (AP / 14)
(1 - 2.2 / 2.3) (AP / 14) = (1 - 2 / 2.3) * Weapon Damage / Weapon Speed
(AP / 14) = (1 - 2 / 2.3) / (1 - 2.2 / 2.3) * Weapon Damage / Weapon Speed
AP = (14 - 34.2 / 2.3) / (1 - 2.2 / 2.3) * Weapon Damage / Weapon Speed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



AP = 20 * Weapon Damage / Weapon Speed

Use this formula how you wish.





Choosing Your Mainhand Weapon Enchant

When picking your enchants on your weapons, weapon speed is also important.

A proc's chance to proc on a weapon is based off a PPM (Procs Per Minute) system. This system bases its calculation on your weapon speed.

If your mainhand's weapon speed is 2.8, you'll have an innately larger chance to proc any given proc as opposed to a weapon with speed 1.5.

Calculation: (Innate PPM For Proc) / (60 / Weapon Speed)

For Crusader, this works out like this:

1 / (60/2.8) = 4.666% chance on every hit.
1 / (60/1.5) = 2.5% chance on every hit.

The reason why you get more procs with a slower weapon is because of instant attacks. Since Hemorrhage is the lowest costing instant attack at 35 energy, you'd be able to use Hemorrhage 17 times as opposed to Sinister Strike at 15 or Backstab at 10.

So, given 17 Hemorrhages in a minute and a 2.8 and 1.5 speed weapon:

(1-0.04666)^17 = 44% chance of not getting a proc in 17 swings, meaning a 56% chance to get a proc in 17 swings.
(1-0.025)^17 = 65% chance of not getting a proc in 17 swings, meaning a 35% chance to get a proc in 17 swings.

Notice how our faster weapon almost halved our chance of getting an extra proc every minute from instant attacks.

With Hemorrhage, most Rogues always stick to +15 Agility in the offhand, then either choose Crusader or Lifestealing for the mainhand, depending on personal preference. Others also stick +15 Agility on the mainhand if they don't like relying on procs or like straight stat bonuses. There are others still that use dual Crusader enchants because the +100 AP bonus stacks, and due to Hemorrhage not being normalized, that +200 AP can be a very powerful damage boost.





Hemorrhage PvP builds 1.12

24/3/24

17/3/31
21/3/27
30/0/21


Hemorrhage "Raid DPS" builds 1.12:

8/21/22

0/21/30

0/27/24

21/0/30

30/0/21


Note on builds: There will always be arguments about point placement within certain builds, so to circumvent that, feel free to modify the listed builds how you wish instead of pointlessly arguing with me.



TLDR Version: Hemorrhage is a somewhat raid utility spec that excels at PvP. 1.12 opens up some new options for better raid DPS with Hemorrhage, an excellent option being 8/21/22, other less appealing (to my eyes) options being variations of 21/0/30 and 0/21/30. However, never confuse Hemorrhage with an actual raiding build. It's not.





Alera did some research for me (he has a ZHM, I don't)
----Alera's stuff starts here!----


Zandalarian Hero Medallion and Hemorrhage, Birds of a feather?

From this thread we can gather that Hemorrhage increases the damage on Kick/Gouge and is applied before the crit modifier(2.0/2.3 respectivly.) What this post is going to do is try and prove that Zandalarian Hero Medallion is just a bigger version of Hemorrhage, applied as a self buff.


Summary


Zandalarian Hero Medallion and Hemorrhage have very similar qualities which cannot be ignored. They both increase the damage of Kick/Gouge and are applied before the crit multiplyer. Zandalarian Hero Medallion also is applied before all multipliers. I.e. 150% Base and 120% Opportunity.


Reasons behind research


Alot of people originally dubbed the Zandalarian Hero Medallion (Here on referred to as ZHM) as simply "+40 weapon damage." Although that's true to some degree, but to what extent? It does indeed increase the damage range, but it also increases static damage, ala Hemorrhage.

I noticed it originally in Zul'Gurub when we were clearing the Gurubashi Champions. The battle shout buff they apply is +200 Damage. I went upto a snake and kicked it, the result? "[You] Gouge crit [Snake] 381" Now this got me thinking about the ZHM and it's effects. Curious I ran off outside of Ironforge and poked the nearest friend I could. The test was to see if ZHM and Hemo had alot in common in terms of effects, then to see how ZHM was affected by Backstab multipliers.


Does ZHM act like Hemorrhage?


Yup. ZHM increases Kick/Gouge damage exactly like Hemorrhage and is applied before crit mutliplyer. There is literally no difference to how they apply damage to Kick/Gouge.

Proof
This was tested on a 0 Armour Mage
Gouge
75 * 2.3 = 172.5
75 + 40 * 2.3 = 264.5
(First line is with out ZHM, second line is with ZHM.)

Kick
80 * 2.0 = 160
80 + 40 * 2.0 = 240
(First line is with out ZHM, second line is with ZHM.)

You can clearly see that it's applied before the crit multiplyer, exactly the same way Hemorrhage is. It's simply a self buff version of Hemorrhage.


So what does this mean?


This means, I found a fairly reliable way to test if Hemorrhage was applied before or after the Backstab multiplyers.


Eh?


+40 Damage is easier to track than +7 Damage. Specially through all the multipliers on backstab and such.

Proof that "Mod Damage Taken/Dealt" uses Backstab Multipliers
With a Worn Dagger and Rank 8 Backstab, a naked Human rogue does 741 -> 743 damage crit backstabs on a 0 Armour target. This was found out after 100 Backstabs. Math backs it up.

Maths
Backstab damage is calculated like so:
[(AP/14*1.7+DMG)*1.5+210]*1.2*2.3

This means that our 40 extra damage would go through a 1.5 multiplier, then a 1.2 multiplier and then a 2.3 multiplier.

40 * 1.5 = 60
60 * 1.2 = 72
72 * 2.3 = 165.6

Now we take 165.6 and add it to the 741 -> 743 base I recorded earlier and we get a 906.6 -> 908.6 range. This fits perfectly with what I experienced ingame.

Now, I hear you cry "BUT HEMORRHAGE ISN'T ZHM!" and you'd be right. They're different. What's the difference? How they're applied. Hemorrhage is called "Mod Damage Taken" and ZHM is called "Mod Damage Done."


Conclusion


Hemorrhage is indeed, better than you thought. The fact it's applied before all Backstab, Opportunity and Critical Strike multipliers means it boosts DPS far more than one would think.


----Alera's Stuff Ends Here!----




So, we can assume that Hemorrhage is applied before opportunity and the backstab multiplier aswell. Which is really nice. But...


The downside : Hemorrhage is affected by armour.


Kick for 55 with armour.
If it ignore armour it'd be:
55 + 7 = 62
We get 61 instead.
(I'll try and find some better damage results to prove it better...1 damage doesn't seem much but I have done stuff myself with it that proves it is)

J'avais trouvé un comparatif des dégats de SS, Hemo et Hemo*X (X étant un coef qui permet de calculer les degats d'hemo si ce spell consommait 40 d'énergie, histoire de le mettre sur un pied d'égalité avec SS), avec différentes armes et différents cap d'AP, mais je sais plus où, mais dans mes souvenirs SS était supérieur à hemo jusqu'à un certains cap d'AP (environ 1k je crois)

Après je ne fais pas du tout de tc, je laisse ça aux autres, mais si je retrouve le tableau j'irai le poster si ça interesse du monde.

Thx bro

J'avais trouvé un comparatif des dégats de SS, Hemo et Hemo*X (X étant un coef qui permet de calculer les degats d'hemo si ce spell consommait 40 d'énergie, histoire de le mettre sur un pied d'égalité avec SS), avec différentes armes et différents cap d'AP, mais je sais plus où, mais dans mes souvenirs SS était supérieur à hemo jusqu'à un certains cap d'AP (environ 1k je crois)

Après je ne fais pas du tout de tc, je laisse ça aux autres, mais si je retrouve le tableau j'irai le poster si ça interesse du monde.

Clairement, si tu le retrouves, n'hésite pas à rajouter un link.

Après, les calculs sont d'une simplicité outrageante hein...

Tiens, deux questions traitées + exemples en speed qui peuvent intéresser et éviter à certains de se taper le wall of text :


Hemo > SS : quelle AP nécessaire selon l'arme ?


L'AP nécessaire dépendra purement de la vitesse de l'arme ainsi que de sa plage de dégâts.

On peut prendre pour exemple la sword r14 qui s'avère bien évidemment un choix judicieux au vu de sa vitesse optimale (2,9) et de sa plage de dégâts correcte (138-207).

On prend la formule suivante :

AP = ( 882.98 - 1.015 * (Minimum Weapon Damage + Maximum Weapon Damage) / 2 ) / ( Weapon Speed - 2.226 )

soit

AP => ( 882.98 - 1.015 * (138 + 207) / 2 ) / ( 2.9 - 2.226 ) ~= 1050 ap

=> Hemo > SS à partir de 1050 ap avec la S14.


----------------------


Tester le potentiel d'une arme donnée pour Hemo :


Hemorrhage: Weapon Damage + (Attack Power / 14) * Weapon Speed
Hemorrhage Critical: Hemorrhage Formula * (2 + Lethality Rank * 0.06)

ex :

S14 :

173 + (1230 / 14) * 2.9 ~= 428 // normal
428*(2+5*0.06) ~= 984 // crit + Lethality (ici 230% d'un coup normal donc).

MSA :

183 + (1202 / 14) * 2.8 ~= 423 // normal
423 * (2+5*0.06) ~= 973 // crit + Lethality

Hemo :

S14 > MSA


NB : Attention, on ne parle pas de PvE DPS ici ou quoique ce soit du style mais seulement des dégâts purs d'Hemo selon l'arme ; genre le proc du MSA n'est pas pris en considération etc


Lorsque je trouverai le temps, je ferai une petite traduction de la partie qui explique comment estimer les taux de proc des enchants cac actifs (je suis d'ailleurs persuadé que 80% des cac ont des idées reçues erronées concernant la question).

Et bien c'était sur le forum Blacklisted, faudrait que je passe moins de temps dans la partie flood ^^
La source originelle est http://www.warcraftchamber.com/Combat/H ... eGuide.htm (lien mort)

Hemorrhage is a talent that completely replaces Sinister Strike, as the rogues main attack.

The main idea behind a Hemorrhage build is to allow maximum control of a fight, which makes it great for PvP. Hemorrhage lacks some of the raw DPS of other builds which makes it somewhat less usefull in PvE, but bringing one Hemorrhage rogue in a 40-man raid for the de-buff adds nicely to DPS.

Halfdan's Hemorrhage build is a 23/3/25 Cold Blood/Hemorrhage build that focuses on talents that add control to a fight, priming it for duels, World PvP and Battlegrounds. However, most information in this guide is relevant to all Hemorrhage builds.

The high amount of control hemorrhage builds brings, is acheived by getting a loads of cheap combo points (Hemorrhage at 35 Energy, Cheap Shot at 40 Energy, Initiative, Ruthlessness and Relentless Strikes) and by using talents that add a tactical advantage (Master of Deception, Camouflage, Elusiveness, Improved Sap, Improved Gouge and Premeditation).

One very important thing about Hemorrhage, is that it's not affected by Weapon Speed Normalization. That means that very slow weapons do a lot more damage than faster ones, and therefore a Hemorrhage rogue should use a main-hander of 2.6 or slower speed (Tables included at the end of this guide).

Serrated Blades

Serrated Blades was one of the nicest additions in patch 1.12. With level 60/rank 3 all of your attacks will ignore 300 armour points, adding substantially to you overall DPS. This table shows the additional damage from rank 3 Serrated Blades on your attacks (level 60 rogue vs a level 60 target).



As you can see, the 300 armour decrease will make the most difference versus lightly armoured targets. Against the average caster allyour physical attacks will dish out about 4.5% more damage - woohoo :-) For an explanation of these numbers, please look at thisforum post.


Hemorrhage vs Ghostly Strike

Neither Hemorrhage nor Ghostly Strike are affected by weapon speed normalization, so they are pretty easy to compare. Per 40 energy spent Ghostly Strike does 9.4% more damage than Hemorrhage. Hemorrhage gets the combo point cheaper while Ghostly Strike has the added 15% Dodge bonus. In my build I have chosen not to include Ghostly Strike, as I think having 9.4% more damage on one attack every 20 seconds is not worth one talent point. Ghostly Strike will probably be more usefull in builds that has 3 points in Setup.

Hemorrhage Weapon Damage Tables

Here's a table that should help in comparing different weapons at 750, 1000, 1250 and 1500 attack power using Hemorrhage. It's a repost of a table I made a while back, updated with new weapons. All weapons are 2.5 speed or slower, since hemorrhage is not affected by attack power normalization.

The columns show the DPS of a weapon, its speed, its Sinister Strike damage and its Hemorrhage damage (average non-crit damage). The final column called 'Hemo*1.14' is how much damage Hemorrhage deals per 40 energy points spend. This is included for comparision with Sinister Strike. The +7 hemo de-buff is not included in these calculations.

P.S : j'ai pris des screen, car impossible de mettre des tabulations ou plusieurs espaces pour la mise en forme, même en passant par la balise "Code".

Edit : Arcanum a mieux étudié l'hemo que moi, vois avec lui si tu veux des détails.

Très intéressant & clean tout ça, un peu moins de torture pour l'esprit malheureusement mais j'a-dore ce genre de truc !

Thx.



Edit : en fait le mec a appliqué la formule dont je parlais et a pris la peine de rentrer toutes les valeurs de chaque weapon rogue du jeu sur un spreadsheet clair qui t'aligne toutes les info nécessaires, un taré comme je les aime !

Wai sauf que le mec trouve MSA > S14 jusqu'à 1500 AP ou ça s'égalise.

Enfin c'était juste pour montrer que la spé hemo pouvait être utile au raid en pve. Au point de vue dps perso, je pense qu'on y perd (faut trouver pas mal de stuff hit du coup, au détriment de l'AP/crit), mais les autres cacs y gagnent bcp.

en fait le mec a appliqué la formule dont je parlais et a pris la peine de rentrer toutes les valeurs de chaque weapon rogue du jeu sur un spreadsheet clair qui t'aligne toutes les info nécessaires, un taré comme je les aime !

Le soucis du détail ! ;-)

Wai sauf que le mec trouve MSA > S14 jusqu'à 1500 AP ou ça s'égalise.

Indeed, je n'avais pas vraiment fait gaffe.

Il trouve MSA > S14 tout simplement parce qu'il reste justement à un montant précis d'AP avec les deux weapons, dans ma formule j'ai foutu obviously -28 ap avec le MSA comparé à la S14 (et encore l'écart se creuserait avec le talent Deadliness), car naturellement si l'AP reste inchangée il est bien évident que le MSA > S14 malgré la différence de vitesse.

Il parle des différents paliers d'AP, mais cela ne peut donner qu'approximativement les performances des armes données, étant donné qu'il ne considère pas les pertes de stats éventuelles d'une arme à une autre et que chaque rogue à un montant d'AP qui lui est propre. Ses tableaux donnent un aperçu global disons.

Bref s'il avait déduit les 28 ap, la S14 serait logiquement affichée comme supérieure au MSA sur chacun de ses tableaux (soyons sérieux, la différence est dérisoire anyway).

comment ça tu partages nos infos! :p

Désolé maitre, me prive pas de loot et me fais pas tanker razuvious :c